I wanna welcome Jessica Corti to the podcast today. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me. Will you tell us just a little bit about you and what you do? Sure. So I am a certified child life specialist. I have been in the field for about, um, 14 years now. I have worked in pediatric intensive care units, a few different types and a few different hospitals as well as general inpatient areas, the emergency room and outpatient settings as well.

So that’s my professional background. My. Personal background. I am a mom of two living children and several babies that never were able to really just live on this earth. I had, uh, four miscarriages and the stillbirth of my little girl, Maggie, at 22 weeks. So that experience has certainly interwoven into every aspect of my life, including my professional world, which of course is.

Why we’re, we’re here talking today. Yeah. And I love, Maggie is such a cute name. I’m pretty sure that was on my list at some point for for baby names. I love to ask my guests about the life of their babies. Like you said, they didn’t really get to live here, but they were here for a brief, you know, weeks.

So is there anything you wanna share that you remember about those pregnancies or Maggie’s pregnancy and the time that you had with her? Just normal memories that. We don’t get to talk about as much as lost moms. I, I love that question because you’re, you’re so right. They, even though they didn’t, you know, walk on this earth, they had time here and we had time to certainly build just all these thoughts and ideas of what we wanted our future to look like when I was pregnant with Maggie.

Are. Son was a year and a half old. And so we, we had all of these visions of, of what this would look like with having, uh, two children that they would’ve been two years apart. And thinking through the chaos of that probably would’ve been, of course it was chaotic in a very different way after. We, uh, went through our loss, but there, there was a lot of excitement mixed in with a lot of nerves.

I don’t know what it was about my pregnancy with her, but I think looking back, I just had this intuition that something wasn’t quite right. So there was always a little reservation, uh, with. My pregnancy with her. I remember getting a little bit upset with my husband posting a picture of me on social media when I was, I, I’d say I was probably like 16 weeks pregnant.

I hadn’t really told anybody yet because of that weird intuition that I had and. I, I was like, why’d you post that picture? I look kind of pregnant, just like people are gonna know. So yeah, so I was very reserved with my pregnancy with her. At that point, I had already gone through three other pregnancy losses, so I had the innocence already gone.

I knew that bad things could happen, and so I guess there, there was that. But I tried to still keep a brave face and I tried to think forward with what, what our future would look like. And I, I’d say, even though I didn’t have a lot of excitement during our pregnancy with her, the time of her, her birth was a very peaceful, of course, very bittersweet, but very peaceful time.

And we, our family had a lot of fulfillment with. Doing things in honor of her. It was our way of parenting her after our loss. Even though we weren’t able to parent her in the traditional way, we were able to do things in honor of her and that really filled our, our bucket and helped us feel like we, we were doing something to parent her.

Yeah. So that was really helpful for us. So you got to spend some time with her? We did. Yeah. We, it was the, Just the most quiet, eerie, weird mix of like every single emotion you could possibly have. We knew that she was gonna be stillborn. The buildup to the time of her birth was definitely one of the hardest.

There were. It was just sobbing, nonstop, sobbing. And then once she arrived, everything became peaceful at that point. And I, it’s, it is really hard to describe what that actually feels like and to somebody who’s never been through that, I know that that might sound really weird, but it was just a really special time.

We had nine hours of holding her and loving on her. We had hundreds of pictures that we took of her, um, We were able to make hand molds and foot molds and just really soaking up the time with her. Of course, we always wanted more there. There’s, there will always be things that we wish we could have done, but it was a really special time being able to have, have that time just building a bond and a relationship with her that I certainly didn’t have with the babies that we lost to miscarriage.

So it was a very different experience. Yeah. What was the cutest thing about her that you remember? Gosh, that’s, that’s a hard one. I feel like there were little features of hers that were very much like me, like the, the chubby cheeks. When I was a baby, I would lay on the floor. My cheeks would lay on the floor along with me, even if I was picking my head up.

So she had my chubby cheeks and my husband’s nose, and she had really big feet. I don’t know where those came from, but even, even at 22 weeks, she had really big feet. So, oh yeah. All those, all those perfect little features. Even though, you know, she, she did have lots of different abnormalities. Just looking at her, she had the cutest little features.

Aw, I love it. Yeah. I go in the hospital and help when babies pass away, and I think they’re just such little dolls at that age, like so cute and so perfect. Yeah, and we were fortunate enough to have the opportunity to have my son come into the hospital and spend some time with her as well. Again, he was, he was only a, a little over a year and a half, but.

He has pictures of that time where they were together, and even though he doesn’t remember that time period, he, he knows that he has those pictures of that time and he actually kind of rubs it in with his sister born after, after Maggie, which is of course not very nice, but it’s what siblings do. But it’s, it’s something that’s really special to him.

And I, I knew that that’s something that we wanted to make happen if, if possible. Yeah, and I love that. That leads right into kind of what I wanted to talk to you today about, which is. Kids and grief and what do we do with all of that? So most of my listeners have already been through loss, but would you just answer maybe how you explain that question of sh should you bring your kids to the hospital if you have a loss, or is it okay to, you know, take ’em to the cemetery or?

I know for me, like when I help families, a lot of times they’re scared that their kids won’t be able to handle meeting the baby. And sometimes they’re like very. Interested in doing that and really want everyone to be there. But a lot of times, I’d say more often than not, they’re afraid to do that. So. So what would you say about that?

You brought up a great point. That’s one of the biggest things. They’re, they’re afraid because they don’t know if they can handle it. And it’s that, that fear of the unknown. What are they gonna do? How are they gonna react? And really, kids can handle a lot more than we think they can. And they also know a lot more than we think they know.

They’re very introspective. They’re, they’re able to pick up on a lot of different details that we don’t think they’re processing. So they actually know a lot more than we give ’em credit for. So those little quiet conversations that might be between the mom and dad, they’re kind of hush hush. A lot of times the kids are listening and they’re putting the pieces together, and if, if we don’t give them information in a way that they can understand, Sometimes those pieces that they’re putting together are not being put together in the right way.

And those, uh, those thoughts that they’re creating can feed into misconceptions that create stress and anxiety that doesn’t necessarily need to be added to their plate. So I always encourage families to be open and honest about what is going on. Of course, providing information in a developmentally appropriate way.

So for the younger kids, really simple concrete information using words that don’t have a double meaning, or words that don’t totally soften the language cuz a lot of the language that people tend to use with death and dying. It softens the language, but adds a lot of confus confusion and a lot of areas for misconceptions to form.

So, so the first step really is helping them understand, okay, what is going on? And there are a lot of different things that can really help with that. Books can be a tremendous help to really open up that conversation because it is a scary conversation that adults are not used to having. So, so books can be a very, uh, Gentle way to have that conversation without feeling the pressure of, I have to say the right thing, I have to have all the right words that can help, help with, uh, guiding that, uh, conversation.

Now, I will say, as far as the question of should they come to the hospital, should we go to the cemetery together right away, those are really personal, uh, questions that have a lot of different, different factors that will, um, Kind of guide people one way or the other. So it depends on, uh, a child’s understanding, their age, their temperament, just the family structure and the support that the family system has as a whole.

So I, I wouldn’t say there’s a one size fits all answer to that question that’s, that’s a little bit more personal. I always encourage the choice for sure. And if, if there’s a, a child that is really. Asking for that opportunity, then that’s something that I, I really recommend. If, if that’s something that, let’s say a five-year-old says, I really wanna meet my brother or sister, or I really wanna go to the cemetery.

They’re, they’re seeking that opportunity and that shows the importance for, for them in that moment. So what about the flip side? Like I said, if, if people here have already, you know, they made that choice in the moment, like, I. That they couldn’t handle it or they didn’t bring their children, or they had a miscarriage like where you couldn’t, that wasn’t available to meet the pandemic.

Right. And the pandemic not for so many people. It’s true. That was, yes. That was a really tough part of everything. Like nobody could come and meet the baby. So what then, if like your children didn’t get a chance to physically meet the child, what’s some ways you can approach just. You know, helping them understand what happened.

Yeah, sure. So if, if there wasn’t the opportunity, or if that wasn’t something that they wanted to do in the moment that, that’s okay, everybody has things that they wish they could have done. Giving yourself grace that, you know, in the moment. I made the best decision that I could in the time or that was the only decision I could have made at the time, and that’s okay.

So just giving yourself grace, that’s not the end all, be all. That’s not gonna necessarily change how a child understands or copes with the, the death of their brother or sister or, you know, whoever it may be within their family. They can still. Connect with that baby through, through lots of different things.

There can be expressive art activities done at home. You can share pictures if you have pictures. Or even footprints or share, share the baby’s name. What, what made you think of choosing that name? Even pictures of pregnancy. I know not everybody has pictures of their baby. You know, with miscarriages you typically don’t have that opportunity.

And sometimes with, with other pregnancy losses, you may not really have any pictures either. So, um, Really just using what you have. And it could be, you know, this is the day that we found out that we were pregnant and we were so excited just sharing those stories. And I actually have, I have a photo book, uh, with.

All of the pictures from the time that we were pregnant with, with my daughter Maggie, and there are a handful of pictures of her after she was born, but a lot of the pictures are pictures of me while I was pregnant and like going to different events with her. Like we took her to a wedding because I was 11 weeks pregnant then.

And, Sharing the stories of how excited we were and how, you know, people, people noticed that I was pregnant at that point and I was still a little hush hush about it. But just sharing those stories can be really helpful and just bringing them into the experience of it. And I, I also always encourage, Parents to, uh, be open with their own emotions and that shows kids that it’s okay for them to show their emotions as well.

You know, some people feel like they need to hide all of their tears from their kids because they don’t want to upset them, but what that’s really teaching their child is that. They should be doing the same thing. So that’s something that I always encourage. And my, my kids have certainly seen me cry when I’m thinking of our daughter.

And, and I, I tell them as well, if they ask me, why are you crying, mommy? I’ve, I’ve had my, my little ones ask, why does your face look so sad? They always have a way of, of, uh, you know, keeping it real. So, you know, I just answer very honestly and say, well, I’m, I’m feeling really sad right now. This happened at Christmas.

We were putting up all of our ornaments and we have a lot of ornaments that relate to our experience with Maggie. They might be some things that make us think of her and when. When we were putting these ornaments up, I started getting really tearful and had that question asked to me. So I just said, these make me think of Maggie and I’m really missing her right now.

So just being open and and honest about I. Your own emotions. I think there’s that idea that like you have to fix it or you have to, like you said the right thing to say. But when my kids would say like, I miss Lauren. You know, I had four little girls and we lost Lauren. She was our fifth little girl, and they would say, I miss Lauren, and I’d just say, me too.

You know, and it’s like you don’t really have to, you’re just like validating, acknowledging it, and yeah. You, I mean, just letting them know that Yeah. I, I can empathize with you. Yeah. And I think that’s one of the big things is taking the pressure off of, uh, feeling like you do have to fix it. Because there, there’s no way to fix grief.

You’re not gonna fix somebody’s pain. You’re not gonna say one magical thing to make them feel better. It. It just is and it, it hurts and it’s messy. And our job as, as parents, as caregivers, as somebody who’s supporting a grieving child, is to sit with them wherever they are and to support them where they are in that moment.

So taking that pressure out of it with feeling like you need to say or do the right thing to make things better, I think. It takes a lot of pressure off of people. Yeah, for sure. And I was thinking, going back to that other question too, about if you don’t have a. Like pictures are a thing with your baby.

I think sometimes stuffed animals can really be good. That’s something I do. If the kids couldn’t come to the hospital, we have little stuffed animals and take a picture with the baby and the stuffed animal and give them, or you could buy a stuffed animal that’s maybe a similar size or I know when we told our.

Kids about river, I got them all stuffed animals. So they had something to hold while we sat and said, you know, this happened again, like we lost another baby. And um, stuff like that. So I think sometimes whatever you think works for your family, your child, their age, what they can understand, I think that helps give a visual of how big your little sibling was.

Yeah, and sometimes other little connectors too, like either a birth month flower or a birthstone can sometimes be that connector to help feel like they have something to connect them to the, the baby that died. I, I love that idea of the stuffed animal too. That’s something that’s really significant in, in our house too.

We have a little stuffed animal that was, Exactly the same size as Maggie. And now my children carry that stuffed animal around with all over the house, and they’ll, they’ll incorporate this stuffed animal into their play too. So it, it almost feels like they’re like playing with their sister by playing with this stuffed animal.

And that’s just one little example of how they really have incorporated her into their, their daily life. They do their little play with her. Yeah. Which is probably so bittersweet sometimes to see it is for sure because there’s, there’s all the, this should be different, but it’s also very sweet to watch how their relationship has, has grown over the years, especially watching my living daughter who was born.

Two years after Maggie died. And so she of course never had any experience of, of seeing her or meeting her. And she still has a super strong connection and relationship with her sister that died. And it’s really fascinating to actually look at the. The relationship with my son and Maggie who had the opportunity to meet and my living daughter and Maggie who did not, they’re really not that different as far as like their bond, their connection, the questions that they ask.

They’re all very similar questions, and I think a, a, a big piece of this is yes, we’ve incorporated Maggie into a lot of what we do as a family. But also the fact that when kids grieve, it’s not just like a one-time thing. I know everything about death and grief. I’m good to go. They rieves. With each different developmental stage and milestone that they’re going through.

So they, they reprocess everything at, at three years and five years, and eight years, and 10, and, and it goes on and on, which I know can be a whole overwhelming to think about. But it’s also their way of processing. That’s how children process big things, including death. Yeah. So do you have any tips for those questions that do come out of these little sweet faces and they have these questions about death and it can catch off guard?

Or you again feel like. I have no idea what to say. What are some tips for answering those questions that they do have? Yeah, and those questions usually come seemingly out of nowhere and I find that those questions are often in the very quiet moments. They’re either in the car driving somewhere or a lot of times at bedtime.

That’s when those questions pop up. So, um, Really big questions can pop up that do catch you off guard. Sometimes they take your breath away and you just have to take a deep breath and think through that, just really simply again. So let’s see. I’m, I’m thinking of some questions that my own kids have, have asked me.

I have heard. The, the question, are they still dead before from my son when he was much younger? And that repetition is something that comes up. I know a lot of parents talk about that one specific question of where, where did the baby go? Are they still dead? That repetition, that can kind of like it. It’s a gut punch when you hear that because you.

Don’t really wanna answer it again, but they need that repetition to really understand it. So giving yourself grace, giving your child grace because they’re, they’re trying to put all the pieces together. And again, talking really simply. Yes, the baby died, his heart stopped beating. The baby’s no longer in my belly.

You know, he died. We’re all really sad. If there is like a known reason for the cause of death, that can be really helpful. But it’s also a lot of times we don’t know, and that’s okay to say too. We don’t have all the answers and we can say, we’re not totally sure why this happened. Sometimes we don’t know.

Often there was something that wasn’t formed correctly. And that’s why this happens. But it’s also okay to not have all the answers. And of course we wish we did have the answers. That would help a lot of us if we had answers for all of these questions as well. But it, it’s okay to not know all the answers.

And it’s also okay to. Say the wrong thing, realize you said the wrong thing, and then backtrack and, and fix that later. Because we, we all say when none of us are perfect, we all say things incorrectly, myself included, that just comes off wrong. So again, just having that, that grace to, to go back and do, do a little redo because things, things that can be confusing, like using the word.

Passed away, or born sleeping is a really confusing term to kids that can then cause them to have some. Some difficulties with sleep themselves because they can create misconceptions around that word, um, or that phrase. So there there are several different phrases commonly used in the, the baby loss world that can be really confusing to kids.

So just speaking very uh, concrete, which can seem kind of harsh at times. Those would be my, my main suggestions is to just speak really concretely and simply about everything, uh, and use your resources. You don’t have to do this alone. Like I said, there are a lot of books out there. There are a lot of professionals out there that can help with these conversations.

There are support groups out there. Use, use the resources in your, your community to help support you through all of this. Yeah. The great thing about kids is they, they still love you. You know, as many times as you mess up, they’re, they’re still gonna be there for you. I think that just reminded me of my daughter, and I think some of these questions are like the meaning of life or like religious questions, like, where’s heaven?

My. I just had that question last night, but we had told our daughters, we believe that we’ll get to have our babies again and they’ll be resurrected. You know, like all of that. And our daughter, I feel like she was about six at the time. Well, like a while later she just came back like, when’s Lauren coming back alive?

She would always say that, and it was like we had kind of taught them like this eternal perspective, like, someday this is gonna happen. And she was waiting for that and so I was like, Ugh. Yeah. We gotta go through and kind of explain this. I mean, I felt like we explained it. Clearly, but obviously we didn’t.

And so cuz we did, I did read all the books and try to be really clear and, but just understanding that she’s sitting here waiting for her baby to come back and that’s not gonna happen. And death is abstract. It’s confusing. Nobody knows what, what really happens when. When we are no longer here, so, so that piece of it too, I mean, you can make it as, as simple and concrete as possible, but there is a huge abstract piece of death and grief and dying that we.

We don’t have the answers for. So, so there’s that piece. So we have talking about it and that’s really good. But kids are always moving. They’re tactile. There’s so many other ways to process through our grief. So what are some ways that we could do at home to help our kids process our, their grief or like just kind of make that connection with their siblings that are not with us?

Sure. Yeah. So yeah, you’re, you’re right. Kids, kids process mostly through play. There are what we talked about with the talking piece. Those are little bits and pieces and they will be very quick little bursts. The more powerful piece is actually through play and processing their, their experiences through really hands-on ways.

Some things that I’ve done with my own children as well as other grieving children. Things that can help create a connection with their, their sibling that died. That’s, that’s huge. Some easy things that anybody could do at home, creating a memory box so they could perhaps decorate it with. Colors that make them think of their brother or sister or person who died.

Really anything that makes ’em think of them. A lot of kids have certain things that make them think of their brother or sister that died, so it might be butterflies or rainbows or you know, what, whatever makes them think of, of that person. They could also make a candle that they could light on special days or just days when they’re thinking of their brother or sister.

I’ve done this with groups of kids where they’ve decorated a, a physical candle. And I’ve done it with younger children who maybe were not ready for that, like glass candle. And we used, I don’t know if you’ve heard of Veem paper, but we’ve used this paper where they could, they could decorate right on top of that paper then use a battery powered light and they can physically light.

Their little candle anytime that they want, they can have it in their room and really take control over that. And I feel like what I, what I’ve seen from. Kids who have done this, it gives them a sense of control. It gives ’em a sense of like pride. They can do this themselves, so they don’t have to have that adult supervision to light up their candle.

Other activities that they could do, they could help with creating a, a garden outside and picking out flowers that. You know, they think are really pretty or they, they feel some sort of connection with their brother or sister making jewelry. Or for, for kids that are a little bit older, they could find some music that they really connect with that either connects with their experience or can, um, just help them through the emotions that they’re going through.

So there are a lot of different ways that they can have that connection built. So that’s a huge piece. The other big piece that I like to incorporate into our play experiences is just processing emotions. So one of my favorites is creating little worry monsters where they can feed their their worries into this worry monster that they create and just have that release and just get all of their things out that are heavy on their mind.

And there’s something about making it into a play activity is really healing and. Just, it’s so much easier for kids to get into the space of expressing themselves when it’s through play versus, so tell me about your day. Like the kids don’t process that way, so, yeah. So do you actually take a cardboard blogs and make a worry monster in two different ways With the, with the worry monsters that we’ve created, we’ve either done it through a, an empty, um, tissue box.

And the part where you would pull out the tissues then becomes the mouth and you can decorate it, construction paper, and googly eyes and really like whatever supplies that you have around the house. So that’s one way you could also do it with an empty canned goods can and decorate. Just put the construction paper around that and decorate, uh, one that way as well.

So, so that’s something that’s been really healing. Yeah, and I think it can be so good if you’re like, I don’t know what to do. Maybe even asking your kids, I love always asking your kids what they think. Cuz some of the things we did, sometimes we’d go for hike and we’d be like, we’re gonna find a heart rock.

You know, we’re just thinking of our babies and we’re just gonna look for heart rocks. Or like you said, the garden is fun or looking for butterflies. Like if you have a symbol of your baby, just even that little. Thing, and I know something I did at a, we had a children’s grief workshop. They had a sandbox and a bunch of toys, and then they just said, make your family, or, yeah, just kind of letting them just see what happens and if there’s no big goal in it, just letting the kids express themselves and like I said, move their body and yeah.

I feel like usually the most powerful and meaningful moments really come from when it’s directed by the child. That’s where the. Really big moments and meaningful experiences come from. Yeah. Like you said, just providing a bunch of different toys and letting them just go with it. You might have like one little opening, like, show me your family, or, uh, just a simple, can you draw, can you draw, your family can open up this huge conversation or it could not.

It could just be it what it is. So really just having, having. That openness in the activities really can can help as well. So just creating opportunities where flourish. It does take so much pressure off and just trusting, like, you’re all gonna get through this, right, because you’re grieving too. And they’re grieving and we’re all just trying to, to figure this out.

No matter how long it’s been since you’re lost, like I said, I mean, questions come up. We had a stillbirth and have a cemetery and like all the things. And my other baby, I had a D N C and went, you know, we don’t have anything, um, there. And my kids still will say, where’s river? And that is kind of a touchy subject for me.

But it’s like as they get older, they’re like, oh, we’re going to Lawrence Grave. We’re not going to Rivers. Great. Like what’s, what’s that all about? And so you just keep, keep rolling with it. Yeah. I love everything you’ve shared and we’re gonna tell you where to find Jessica because she has so many great resources and things on her Instagram, like how to answer these questions, ideas, things you can do.

But just my last question I wanted to ask you, if there’s someone listening right now who’s kind of struggling and feeling like I. They don’t know how to help their kids through their grief. What’s like a message of hope that you would give? Sure. First, I’ll acknowledge and validate it is exhausting work, grieving yourself, and then adding the additional layer of supporting your own grieving kids.

So just recognizing that that. It is exhausting. You are gonna get through it. All of you will get through it. And I know that it can feel like a really lonely experience because yes, a lot of the grief work is such an internal process, but you’re not alone in it. And that’s, that’s really the underlying message is you’re not alone.

There are a lot of other families that are. Either going through the same thing at the same time or have been through similar situations in the past, and there are a lot of resources out there that can support you so that you do not have to do this on your own. Lots of different organizations and support groups and books and professionals like myself that.

Can provide that psychosocial support to grieving children and their families so that you don’t have that pressure of feeling like you have to have all the answers and figure out how to, how to do this all. It’s, you know, one step at a time using your resources. And knowing that it’s okay to not know all the answers and know how, how to do every little thing, just taking it one step at a time.

Giving yourself self grace and using the resources that you have available to you. Yeah, I love that so much. Cause that’s something I really try to tell people too, is like, You can’t be everything or your partner. They’re not everything. There’s so many ways you can support yourself and this is the time when you need it.

I know it’s hard to ask for help. Yeah. But, and sometimes it’s so helpful to have the support of somebody who is not directly involved in this grief because you can’t give, what you don’t have to give you are so emotionally depleted, and that’s to be expected. And it can be really, really helpful to have somebody who is not involved in this process whatsoever, not emotionally drained, so that what you have support from somebody who can see things from a different lens and can can be that support person.

Yeah, absolutely. We call it being in the pool in coaching. It’s like you can’t be it like the person that’s in there trying to tread water with you is not the one you wanna ask for help. Yeah. Get someone who’s got a solid foundation and can, can kind of pull you out of that. Well, I could talk to you forever.

I have, I just love everything you do. But we’re gonna k keep this short, but will you tell people where they can find you and what you have to help people help their kids? Um, through grief, so I can be found on my website, which is kids grief support.com and Instagram. I’m Kids Grief Support, so you can find me in those two places I, with, with my business, I provide.

Support for grieving kids as well as supporting parents with finding the tools of how, how do I help my child? What, what can I say? What um, activities can help them. So I do both parent consultations as well as working in individually with kids. Right now that is all virtually based. So I am open to work with, uh, kids and families from really anywhere, which is a really.

Great thing to be able to provide because there, there are not a lot of resources in the community. So having, having that, um, Availability to support people no matter where they are in the country is really helpful. I also will be taking in-person clients and I’m in in the Baltimore area, so anybody who is in my area and wants to seek out my services in person, they can reach out to me on my website.

And then in a couple months I have a book coming out that is all focused on sibling grief. And really the, the gist of the book is helping kids to understand that even though their brother or sister is not physically present, they will always have that connection, that love and bond. That’s awesome. Yeah, I’m really, I’m really excited too.

I think there can’t be enough grief books out there for kids. That’s what everyone’s like, help, where do I find these and, and what can I do? And I’ve just seen so many people who have been through things like we have, who are, who really wanna help, um, get easier and more books are coming out there. And it’s really exciting because different books will connect with different people.

Mm-hmm. And, you know, you could, you could have. 12 books on the shelf that are basically on the same topic, and that still doesn’t feel like enough because you are always wanting more to help kids feel that connection, that they’re not alone in this experience. And to give them the words and and tools to cope with all.

Awesome. Well, I’m gonna have all Jessica’s information in the show notes, so you can just scroll down and find that. But I wanna thank you so much for everything you shared and everything you’re doing to help families. Thanks, Amy. I really appreciate it. This has been great. Are you tired of feeling like your baby’s death was somehow your fault?

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