Welcome. I am. I’m so excited to have my client on today. Whitney was brave enough to share her story and give us kind of a picture of what it’s like being in coaching and also just what it’s like moving forward and moving through your grief and all the tools that she learned and was able to use as we work together.

It’s been almost a year since we started working together, so I thought, I thought it was a great time to. Give us all a vision. A lot of times I will talk to people about looking forward and imagining your future and it can be hard. And so I think that we have a beautiful opportunity here for you to really see one person’s story and their experience.

And it doesn’t mean that now she’s in that. Quote unquote, after, and that life is perfect. Life is still gonna be hard. Half the time we still have challenges. Grief is still gonna crop up for us, but I think that she does a great job of explaining the tools that she uses and that we use in coaching and just telling her story, which is a really, really beautiful one.

I am so grateful to her for being brave, so I hope you enjoy this episode. I wanna welcome my client, Whitney, here with us today. Whitney, we started working together almost exactly a year ago. Can you believe that? I can’t believe it. I was trying to, I was wondering how long ago did I even start? That is crazy.

Yes. Before we dive in to today’s topic, which is just talking to you about, What it’s been like this year and what you’ve been through and kind of taken us through your journey. I always like to start the podcast letting people tell a story about their baby’s life, and we often talk about our baby’s deaths when we’ve lost them, but you have a sweet little boy, and I’d love if you’d share just a little bit about him, your pregnancy, and any lessons that he’s taught you.

My, my son’s name is Jimmy and I have three older kids that are older than him. Um, and when my, when my youngest at the time was, was around, I think he was around three, which would’ve been like the largest age gap, I just had, felt like I wanted one more baby. I wanted another baby. And, um, So I got pregnant and actually kind of like had talked to another, a really good friend of mine and we sort of like convinced each other that we could do one more baby.

Like she sort of wanted another baby too. Anyway, we ended up both getting pregnant at the same time, but I got pregnant with him and. Everything looked good at at my eight week appointment and my, um, 12 week appointment. I got to see his cute little body on the ultrasound when I went in for my 16 week appointment.

And this was in March. It was just right at the beginning of the pandemic. And he, uh, when I went in there, there was no heartbeat. The doctor, uh, couldn’t find a heartbeat with just the, what is that tool called? The dopp? The Doppler. The Doppler, yeah. With, with the Doppler. And he said, Um, let’s just, you know, let’s just go check, check things out on the ultrasound.

And I was like, I, I don’t know. I, in my mind I was like, it, it could be fine. You know, like, it’s probably fine. Yep. It’s probably fine. But when we went in, um, And got on the ultrasound and he wasn’t moving and there was no heartbeat, and I was of course devastated. I was so sad. So I didn’t carry him for for very long, but I was very excited when I found out I was pregnant with him.

And my kids were super excited. They had been wanting another sibling for a long time. They were very excited and. Is there any little memory from the time when you, you did have him with you that you kinda like to think about? Even like cravings or, you know, all those things we don’t really get to talk about with our babies.

We lost. You know what, actually I do remember a craving. That’s funny that you say that. I craved sour candy, which I had never craved with any other siblings, but I, or with any of my other kids. But I do remember, um, sending my husband out to get, like, I think he brought me back like Sour Patch kids and.

Maybe some like tropical Starbursts or something like, which normally I’m totally a chocolate lover, so it was a weird craving. So I do remember that. Yeah. Um, no, that’s perfect. That’s so cute. That’s how I knew with my boys, my Rainbow boys. I didn’t want ice cream. And I was like, yeah, this is weird. Like you’re, yeah.

And you don’t want ice cream. Yeah. I don’t know. Okay. Yeah, that was weird. I. You talked about how excited you were and then how devastated you were, and if it’s okay, can you take us back to a year ago when we started working together? I was looking back in our notes and maybe just it will bring you back to that time, but you were talking about there was a party coming up for people in your church and they were doing a party for all the 2020 babies.

It was. Kind of a big deal because you had a baby, but he wasn’t with you. Yeah. So can you just tell us kind of like emotionally, mentally, where were you? Um, at that time, I, yeah, I was not, not in a, I think I was in maybe a normal spot, but it was, I was in the most pain that I’ve ever experienced before in my life.

Everything was painful, everything. Seemed to be a reminder of Hi the loss. And, and I was it, so he passed at the end of March and here it is, the end of August it sounds like, is when we start, I started coaching and so I think I was at a point that I was like, why am I still so sad? Why is everything making me, I don’t wanna feel this anymore?

Is, um, you know, like, I don’t wanna feel. I think I had a lot of resistance to allowing, um, the pain. And so yes, the, I do remember that party a, a bunch of, there were a lot of my circle of friends had babies that year, like I think maybe like 15 babies. Wow. And my church, um, group of friends had been born that year and yeah, they were having a, like a get together to.

Every, nobody had seen each other in a while because of Covid and they wanted to do like an outdoor, I don’t know, party. And I wasn’t invited. Aw. And I remember feeling like I still had a baby. Um, and just because he’s not alive doesn’t mean he wasn’t a baby born in this year. And, and he still matters, you know, I think, if I’m remembering correctly, I’m thinking that’s how I felt.

Yeah. But, I was just very depressed. I, I remember feeling very lonely in the grief. Like wanting other people to understand how incredibly difficult it was. And it felt like because he wasn’t a full term baby, it felt like, it felt like people maybe didn’t think it was as big of a deal as it felt to me.

Uh, I was in a lot of other people’s heads, a lot worrying about what other people thought, and, um, feeling really lonely, wanting other people to understand how painful and hard. It was. Yes. And I, so again, I went back a little bit in our notes and just so everybody knows, Whitney said it’s okay to share, but some of the feelings you told me or how you were doing emotionally, you said the grief was crushing.

Yes. You felt hopeless. It was agonizing and it was torture. Yes. I remember feeling like, I think I had told you, it felt like grief was trying to kill me. It felt like it was my enemy. It kept popping up when I didn’t want it to. It would come unexpectedly and catch me off guard. I was just so miserable. I think it was just so incredibly painful.

It was really, really hard. It was really hard. Yeah. And I think it’s so brave of you to reach out for help, like in that kind of a dark place, and I was just thinking it was emotional for you in our sessions. Yeah. So what would you say to someone who’s maybe like, I don’t wanna cry, or I don’t wanna be emotional, like it’s.

It’s too much or overwhelming. Yeah. Um, what would you just share a little bit of your experience like, ’cause I know it was emotional for you a lot in this. It was, I think I cried. I mean, I have tears running down my face right now, now just thinking about it. Um, I’m pretty sure I cried every single session we had and, um, To be honest with you, it, it was, I think just part of grief.

It’s emotionally and physically draining. And a lot of the times I would walk away from our sessions and, and be just completely drained and exhausted. But I, I would get it out, you know, with you, I would allow myself to cry and to, um, talk about things and I think I. I can see now, although it never was really fun and I had a lot of resistance towards those feelings.

I can see now how it’s, it’s just one of those things that you kind of, there’s not, I feel like for me, there wasn’t another way around it. Like I had to allow myself to cry. I had to be able to, To feel the feelings to process the sadness, and I really needed help doing that. I, I was so resistant to being in pain and I was trying to do everything I could to avoid the pain, but really that just created more pain for me and um, like this pressure buildup of pain.

And so I think I would kind of unload, you know, during our coaching sessions and. It was hard. It really, it really is. I think grief grieving is work, but it, it was work that needed to be done for me to be able to have more peace in my life. So it was definitely, you know, work worth doing. But it is, it’s hard work.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that, I mean, that was right where we started, right? Was, yeah. Because I think you had the grief and then you were judging your grief a lot. Yes. So starting with that, just. Loving yourself and having compassion for being right where you were. Which that was a process too, for sure. Yes.

’cause I was angry a lot that I was sad. I. Yeah. Um, I was angry that I just, you know, I remember, I remember just a, like a week after Jimmy died was my son’s birthday and I just wanted to feel happy at his birthday party and, um, I was able to like, pull it together for the party. But, but there’s, there’s other, the, the hard part about grief is life keeps going even maybe when you don’t want it to.

And there were times when I was just wanted to be sad, but there were other times when I, I, I didn’t, I didn’t want to bring grief along with me and I just wanted to feel happy. And I think one of the things that I really learned through coaching is that, You can feel emotions simultaneously. You can be happy at a baby shower for somebody else and also still have sadness that your baby’s not there, or, um, so I think learning to, to allow the sadness to come with me and to, to feel, to allow it to be there helped me to still be able to find joy.

Other moments too, if that makes sense. Yeah, totally. Okay. I have one more question just from that time and then we’re gonna move on. Okay. If you can imagine again there, when you looked forward in your life, what did you see? Like, what did you think it would look like? Oh, I just, this sounds so dramatic, but I couldn’t, I couldn’t see ever being happy again.

I couldn’t see ever feeling peace again. I couldn’t see. I couldn’t see ever. Yeah, I just, I was so sad. Yeah. I was so sad and I, I really did feel hopeless and so it was really hard to imagine not feeling that way. It felt kind of like my life was over and I was just doomed to sadness, you know, to to forever be sad because I couldn’t imagine if that, I don’t know that, that’s just kind of how I felt.

Sorry. No, that’s good. No, that’s perfect. Okay. I think that’s really honest and that’s what I remember and I think, yeah, in coaching what we talked about is just that it was okay to be there and you didn’t have to believe it. And something that I love to do as a coach is to. To believe it for you. Yeah, because I’m a little bit, you know, on the other side of some of it, and so I think just recognizing that that’s part of grief, it’s very self-centered and it doesn’t, there wasn’t a lot of hope for the future, but I saw hope for you.

Yeah. And I really needed to borrow that, you know, like you, when I couldn’t believe it. I think it was nice to know that. You could, although I do remember looking at you and thinking, I don’t, I don’t know how, I think not knowing how was kind of an act of faith too, because it was like, I, I just don’t see how that’s, that’s going going to be possible.

Right. But knowing that other people. Had done it, which I think actually made me kind of map sometimes that like I don’t understand how these people are functioning and I’m not. Um, so, so yeah, I think you’re right. There was a lot of just having to love myself where I was and just hold on to the belief that if other people can.

Can find joy again that it maybe it’s possible for me too, and I think that’s a beautiful place to start and not, not easy, like it wasn’t easy. Yeah, no, for sure. Let me ask you, you mentioned that relationships were kind of a big deal as you moved through your grief. I’m just wondering. Could you tell us a little bit about some of your relationships and what that looked like and how you navigated grief and relationships?

Well, I can think of like, I can think of some parts of relationships that were hard and, and then maybe some that were beneficial. Like it was hard for me to, It was, it was hard for me relationship wise to see my girlfriend who I got pregnant at the same time with. She went on to have twins even months after.

You know, her twins were born in September, which like their due date was like a week from Jimmy’s due date. And any time I went to a social gathering, gathering with friends where she was there, or even when she wasn’t there, people were talking about her twins and. It was hard for me to, I just remember that being hard on our relationship.

I think it was hard for her because she was worried about making me feel sad, and it was hard for me because I, I had to learn again to feel happiness for her and, and also that it was okay to still for feel sad for me that it was okay that. Her babies reminded me of my loss. So that was a relationship that was really tricky.

I, I think the biggest thing that impacted my relationships was wanting people to understand my pain and, and I think that in our culture, we’re just, As a culture, I just think that we’re not really that great at grieving. We don’t talk about it a lot. And, um, so other people, even when they’re well intentioned, I think either they, they don’t know what to say, so they don’t say anything at all.

Or they say things that aren’t helpful, or not everybody, but I, there was a lot of like feeling like nobody understands this pain. Even, even like my own mom at times wanted me to come out of the pain before. I don’t know. People wanna fix your pain, I think. And so that was really hard because I, I didn’t wanna be fixed.

Um, I just wanted someone to listen. And it’s hard for people to hear so much pain and so, I think that I learned to have my own back to not have to coaching, helped me learn that I didn’t need other people. To get it. I didn’t need everyone to get it. I should say. I had a few key friends and my husband and people in my life who, who really did understand, and that was super helpful.

And I knew that, I knew you understood. And so I didn’t need the whole world to understand. And so I think I, I had to learn to let go of people who just. Who didn’t understand because they, they haven’t experienced it. That was a, that was a big thing to let go of anger from other people who maybe said things that I thought were really insensitive or wanting people to, to understand.

I, I just remember feeling really lonely. Um, yeah, and I think, like I remember. Yeah. You did have a lot of times where you wanted people to act a certain way. Yeah. So that you could feel better, which is Right. You know, super disempowering. Right. And then there were other times where they did actually act the way you wished and then it, and it was still hard.

Yeah. Yes, that’s true. You’re right. Yeah. So recognizing, which just goes to show you. That it doesn’t really matter as much what other people do as you know what you’re thinking about, I guess. Yes. Like putting those things in the circumstance line of what people say, what people do, what they don’t do.

Mm-hmm. Figuring out what you’re thinking about it. Yeah, I think was something that we worked on a lot and yeah, I think like for instance, I remember you offering me the thought, ’cause I think I kept coming to you with, nobody understands this, you know, nobody understands my pain. And I remember a turning point for me was when you offered the thought, like what if you could put that down and start believing that there’s actually a lot of people that, that you are surrounded by people who do understand.

And look for evidence of the people that you’re surrounded by, who really, who really do understand who are serving you or who have shown up for you, and who have listened and who have been really kind. And I think once I was able to let go of focusing so much on all the ways I didn’t feel, um, seen. But focus on the ways people really were supporting me.

That was really helpful to change that belief that what, well, what if, what if there actually are a lot of people in your life that understand and, and who are there for you? And that was a big turning point and, and kind of taking off a, a brick that was weighing me down. Okay. So we’re moving forward a little bit and you found out that you were expecting again, Yes.

So tell us a little bit about what that was like. Six months after I lost Jimmy, I got pregnant again. It was really terrifying. I think I was, I think for a really long time I just kind of pretended like I wasn’t pregnant. I didn’t tell anyone for a long time. And then when I did tell people I. I, I really didn’t like talking.

Uh, I think, I think a lot of people, especially people who maybe have a harder time talking about grief, were kind of like relieved. Like, oh, good, she has another baby and we can talk about this new baby. Now we can focus on something happy ’cause the new baby should be happy. I felt guilt. A lot talking about the new pregnancy, and it felt like, I think again, then I had to process feelings.

Like, I remember feeling like everybody thinks I’m healed now because I, I have, um, this new baby, but I’m still sad about Jimmy’s death. So yeah, I, again, like a lot of being in other people’s heads, but kind of reassuring myself that it’s okay to. I had to learn to, to be happy to, to be okay with having joy for the new pregnancy and realizing that that didn’t cancel out my loss or it didn’t take away my sadness.

I think I actually thought. At the beginning, oh, I’m going to, I should get pregnant right away because then I won’t be as sad. And, but then I found out that wasn’t gonna be true. You know, before I got pregnant I realized that won’t actually work. And so, so once I did get pregnant again, I think just having to learn to, to allow both emotions to allow.

Fear when I would go back to the doctor’s office, um, I, there was a lot of anxiety, especially, um, until I could, like, once I could feel the baby, I. It was easier, but there was a lot of anxiety and thoughts of like, what if I, he, what if the baby’s dead and I don’t know it again? Or, um, you know, what am I gonna do if I go in and I don’t?

Yeah. Just a lot of those fear thoughts that kind of like my, my brain felt were thought were protective. So, learning that, learning that fear, fear, it was not protective. That not connecting to the new pregnancy. Wasn’t gonna prevent sadness if I lost the, you know, my, the second pregnancy. That learning that it was okay to connect with, with that baby.

Who is now born and his name is Tommy and he’s adorable. I love him so much. But, but learning that, that I’m not connecting with Tommy while I was pregnant in some way in my mind, felt like if I just pretend like I’m not pregnant or if I don’t talk about it or I, I don’t, like, I had a hard time. I didn’t, I didn’t want to have a baby shower.

I didn’t, I had a hard time celebrating the pre this pregnancy, um, because it felt like if I. If I put up the crib or if I get the nursery ready, or if I have a baby shower and then he dies, I’m gonna be, it’ll be so much harder, but in reality, it would’ve been hard either way. So I think there was a lot of fear and kind of having to kind of, I think coaching just helped me to give a little bit more equal airtime to.

What if everything goes right? You know, I think I was so focused on everything going wrong again, that, um, I think coaching really helped me feel, feel, allow myself to feel joy and, and also bring the fear along. ’cause to be honest, it didn’t, I. It didn’t really go away all the way, but um, yeah, and I think that’s, I love how you’ve described it because as you’re talking, you’re just explaining a lot of the tools that we use in coaching and I think it is more about managing the anxiety instead of Yeah.

And like doing those things, which does take more work than. A pregnancy that isn’t after a loss. Right. You just have to keep reminding yourself and telling yourself like it’s possible this could turn out and it’s okay that I’m scared before the doctor’s appointment and Right. And all of that. So yeah. I love all the tools that you mentioned.

There are so, so good for that. I just have a couple more questions. Tell us something that you are really proud of yourself for, that you’ve been able to do in the last year. Okay, here’s an example. I, so I delivered Jimmy Vaginally and we got to hold his. Perfect little body and, um, I’m feel really grateful for being able to have those moments with him in the hospital.

And we, we decided to bury him. We had just a teeny little 10 person funeral because of Covid. But the morning of the funeral, I actually had like a anxiety attack. Mental breakdown where like, I, I didn’t wanna go to the funeral. I was, I just couldn’t do it. I, I, it felt like I was facing a reality that was just too painful.

It was just, I, I couldn’t believe that this was my life that I was going to bury my son. I literally couldn’t get out of bed. I was. I was hyperventilating. I, I was just having a full on anxiety attack. The, you know, an hour before we were supposed to be at the cemetery. My mom came and got me and fed me and kind of got me dressed and convinced me to go, and it was really, really hard and for a really long time, I, I.

Didn’t wanna go back to the cemetery. I, it was, I think I viewed the funeral as such a horrible, painful thing, um, that I just associated the cemetery. I had friends who like had offered to. I’d love to go visit his grave with you sometime. And I was just like, no, I don’t wanna go back there. I don’t want to.

Because going back was like this reality that your child is buried here, you had a baby that died. And just thinking that and being there staring at, you know, the grave was. Too hard. Um, so I think one of the things that through coaching over the past year that I feel proud of is I was able to go, I, I, I’m able to go back now and it not be that difficult.

I, I think like before it was like the, just the way, the way I can describe is, is it felt like going to. Going to the grave felt like jumping into a raging ocean. You know, like it was just like, I cannot do that. I, I can’t do that. It’s dangerous, it’s scary, it’s sad. I can’t be there. I’m able to go now and I guess I just feel in control of the I.

It’s not like I go now and I’m all happy. I still feel sadness, but I think I feel more love. Now when I go just, um, I’m able to feel love for my baby instead of this terrorizing. Fear of the pain. I’m not so afraid of the pain anymore. That’s one thing that I just really couldn’t do at the beginning, um, that I could do now, is I can go and allow the sadness and, and not have it like completely wreck my whole day.

If that makes Yeah, yeah. Totally makes sense. Yeah, and I remember, I think something that helped, I mean maybe you could tell me, but something that we talked a lot about was that you. You didn’t have to go to the cemetery. I think it was another place where you were judging your grief was like, yes. Well, I, you know, if I was a good mom or if I was this or whatever, then I would want to go there, but, right.

Just recognizing it’s okay that you hated going there. Yes. I think is like a first step in that process. Yes, yes. Allowed me to not resist feeling it some more because I think I had the resistance of feeling the pain, but then on top of it, all of that judgment like you were talking about, like judging that, worrying about what other people thought of me when I was like, no, I don’t wanna go to the grave.

Or, and then judging myself, like what kind of mother doesn’t wanna go, you know, to her own child’s funeral or um, to. Visit the grave site. Yeah. So I think, yes, coaching definitely helped me. I, you know, honestly, I think the biggest thing from coaching was to just learning to be kind to myself and to be patient in the grieving process.

And you were so, I, you were so good and so gentle with me in teaching me that that was okay. And. That was a really, I think that was so vital in allowing me to, to let go of maybe some dirty pain so I could just feel the clean pain of, of just being sad that he had died instead of sadness and anger and judgment and, Resentment and, um, you know, all the other emotions that I was having.

It, it, I think being able to let go of those just allowed me to then walk through the grief instead of continually just hitting a wall. That’s beautiful. Well, will you tell us, I mean, can you describe your life now? And I’m not saying like, oh, now I’m sure everything’s not perfect. Right. Um, but as we’re just providing this, just like a vision of what it looks like for someone who might be in that place where they can’t see what the future looks like.

Yeah. Tell me, I mean, you just went to Disneyland, um, you’ve got a new baby. I mean, what Yeah. What is your. Life kind of like now. I am very blessed. I have a. A really supportive husband. I have wonderful babies here on Earth as well. I, I have joy again. I really do. I have joy again. I think, I think, I don’t remember if you were the one that told me this analogy, or I found it on an inst grief Instagram account, but it really does feel like I, I think the best way to describe it to people is in the beginnings of grief, it just felt like I was in a stormy sea and I was just getting.

Constantly hit by these gigantic waves, and I just felt like I was drowning. I couldn’t stop it. And, you know, just constantly getting covered in these waves of sadness and getting beat up. Like, like I had said, it felt like grief was trying to swallow me, like it was trying to kill me. And now, um, I, now I think I can say that the water feels relatively calm, you know, it.

I, I’m still in the water. I still think about my baby every day, but I am, I’ve learned to allow space for sadness. And so now, you know when waves come, which they still come, in fact, I, I can feel the pole of in about a week and a half is when he would’ve been one years old if he had been born full term.

And I can kind of feel like, it’s almost like grief sort of pulls you in and says, We’re gonna be sad again today. And now instead of fighting it and run, wanting to run away, I can feel, I, I almost kind of look at it now as the sadness is, is because of love. The sadness is because I love my son and so I’m not afraid of waves when they come.

Now I’m much. I’m better at just allowing myself to cry when I need to cry. I’m much better at, it’s not debilitating anymore like it was before. Life is a lot EAs, it’s a lot easier now to process the sadness, but, but I also have more joy when I think about my baby now. And, and when I think about myself, I, I think I have a lot of more love for myself and for.

A lot more compassion for how hard it was and what I was able to do. And it’s definitely much easier now and, and life is joyful now. So, yeah, I think that’s what I would say it. I, I do remember you telling me in the beginning, What, and I think you were meaning for it to be, you know, helpful to allow myself, to give myself permission for, I think you said, what if I tell you that it’s okay?

This is gonna be hard for at least a year. Like everything is just gonna be hard. And I remember thinking like, no, I remember that too. I know. Well, that sounds horrible. I don’t want it to be hard for that long, but I, but. The hard part was just having to learn how to do it, how to grieve, how to manage those relationships, how to have self-love.

And it’s not something that you can just be told and you know, your brain gets overnight. I think it really is rewiring how you think about yourself, how you think about other people, how you think about maybe traumatic things like for me, like the grave site or even his birth and choosing to, to see things.

Differently. And I, I think mostly like that self-love has just allowed me now, I don’t get mad at myself when I feel sadness coming. There’s just a lot more peace, I guess you could say. And I think that’s huge. Like I, like I said, I think just how you’re using all the skills and like, Just loving yourself.

It’s so beautiful. And also, I have to say, there is no timeline on grief. I think why Right. We were talking about that is ’cause you were in such a hurry. Like you just, yes. Were in such a hurry to get out of this pain. Yes. And it just wasn’t serving you to think that way. And so, right. But again, it’s something you just have to.

To work through and I think that that’s a beautiful message to leave with everyone today. I just have one last question. Just what would you say to someone who’s thinking about coaching and whether or not it could help them? Uh, I would a hundred percent recommend. Coaching especially, you know, because, ’cause I actually, I did therapy too.

I, I just think coaching, especially coaching with you, with somebody who has been there, who, who understands and who can help you learn to process the pain and to have that kindness for yourself. I, I just think the coaching was, I, I just, I don’t think I would be where I am today if I had not done it. So I would highly recommend it as, as a gift to yourself, as an act of kindness for yourself because it, it is so hard.

And like I said, I think it’s really easy to feel so lonely and, and grief and having a good coach who can. Walk you through. That really helped me learn important skills and, and helped me feel like I had an ally. I, I had a lifeboat, you know, in my, in my storm, which I really needed. You’re so awesome. I wish we could hug through Zoom.

I know, through the screen for virtual hug. Well, thank you so much, Whitney, for being here and for sharing. I know it’s gonna help a lot of people. Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it. Are you ready for results like this? Go Tostones Coaching, and you’ll see a button right there to book a call. I can’t wait to meet you.